Comments on: The Seven Counterfeit Gospels - Part III http://zealfortruth.org/2008/04/the-seven-counterfeit-gospels-part-iii/ Thu, 08 Jan 2009 19:13:29 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.1.3 By: Bryan http://zealfortruth.org/2008/04/the-seven-counterfeit-gospels-part-iii/#comment-6406 Bryan Thu, 24 Apr 2008 17:02:47 +0000 http://zealfortruth.org/2008/04/the-seven-counterfeit-gospels-part-iii/#comment-6406 <i>Real fellowship always supports the individual believer - it always comes back to the idea of the group empowering the individual, rather than the individual conforming to the group (Romans 12:4-13).<i> Can you expand on this, and explain how this idea works with the analogy of being parts of a body (1Cor 12:12). I guess I don't see why you've set up the dichotomy that you have. Real fellowship in my mind does always support the individual believer, but it's not about empowering them as individuals, nor conforming them to the group, but instead strengthening the church so that she can go about her mission more effectively. Real fellowship always supports the individual believer - it always comes back to the idea of the group empowering the individual, rather than the individual conforming to the group (Romans 12:4-13).

Can you expand on this, and explain how this idea works with the analogy of being parts of a body (1Cor 12:12). I guess I don’t see why you’ve set up the dichotomy that you have. Real fellowship in my mind does always support the individual believer, but it’s not about empowering them as individuals, nor conforming them to the group, but instead strengthening the church so that she can go about her mission more effectively.

]]> By: Colin http://zealfortruth.org/2008/04/the-seven-counterfeit-gospels-part-iii/#comment-6409 Colin Thu, 24 Apr 2008 17:28:17 +0000 http://zealfortruth.org/2008/04/the-seven-counterfeit-gospels-part-iii/#comment-6409 I think you have the essence of my answer in your response, which causes me to believe that this is merely a terminology issue. The church's mission is carried out in it's members. The only unifying element in the body is the head - Christ. The head has dispersed the gifts to the individual members to carry out the purposes of the head. The members do not form a separate group or division within the body in an attempt to fulfill the role of the head. The church is most effective when the members are each specialized in their gifts and are using them in the most direct application from the head. Fellowship in the body is to exhort and encourage individual believers so that the church's collective mission (as defined by the head) can be the most effective. I think you have the essence of my answer in your response, which causes me to believe that this is merely a terminology issue.

The church’s mission is carried out in it’s members. The only unifying element in the body is the head - Christ. The head has dispersed the gifts to the individual members to carry out the purposes of the head. The members do not form a separate group or division within the body in an attempt to fulfill the role of the head. The church is most effective when the members are each specialized in their gifts and are using them in the most direct application from the head.

Fellowship in the body is to exhort and encourage individual believers so that the church’s collective mission (as defined by the head) can be the most effective.

]]> By: Jew http://zealfortruth.org/2008/04/the-seven-counterfeit-gospels-part-iii/#comment-6411 Jew Thu, 24 Apr 2008 18:51:29 +0000 http://zealfortruth.org/2008/04/the-seven-counterfeit-gospels-part-iii/#comment-6411 Thanks for these articles, Colin. I looked through the seven counterfeit gospels and tried to see which ones I'm prone to. Formalism and Legalism have never held an attraction for me. I'm deeply suspicious of emotions, so Mysticism is out. Therapism also seems emotion-based. (And I'll confess something here: there's nothing that bothers me quite so much as Christians whose lives are a series of continual crises which seem to do nothing but satisfy an emotional need for dependence. These are people who can't seem to cope unless God is rescuing them every day from another worldly crisis. Sometimes I think they manufacture and nurture crises in order to feel close to God. Uh, rant over.) Social-ism isn't my problem because, uh, I hate people. Not really, but I'm not a terribly social person. The church isn't my social club. I don't want a social club. I'm prone to Biblicism because it fits my intellectual personality. It's easy to look down on people who don't have the same knowledge that I do, as if knowledge makes a person more spiritual and holy. I don't know why I think that. Maybe I'm expecting that on Judgement Day Jesus will ask me to list and discuss the five points of Calvinism. So to combat my tendency toward an intellectual faith, I'm drawn into Activism. I hold minarchist libertarian views of politics, so I don't want to fix society through the law and government programs. (Colin, I think your summary focused too much on one aspect of Activism and maybe it missed the big picture.) But I do think the church should get involved in helping the community, and Christians should start charities and organizations to influence this world for the better. I try to judge my own spiritual development by how many service ministries I'm involved in. Thanks for these articles, Colin. I looked through the seven counterfeit gospels and tried to see which ones I’m prone to. Formalism and Legalism have never held an attraction for me. I’m deeply suspicious of emotions, so Mysticism is out. Therapism also seems emotion-based. (And I’ll confess something here: there’s nothing that bothers me quite so much as Christians whose lives are a series of continual crises which seem to do nothing but satisfy an emotional need for dependence. These are people who can’t seem to cope unless God is rescuing them every day from another worldly crisis. Sometimes I think they manufacture and nurture crises in order to feel close to God. Uh, rant over.)

Social-ism isn’t my problem because, uh, I hate people. Not really, but I’m not a terribly social person. The church isn’t my social club. I don’t want a social club.

I’m prone to Biblicism because it fits my intellectual personality. It’s easy to look down on people who don’t have the same knowledge that I do, as if knowledge makes a person more spiritual and holy. I don’t know why I think that. Maybe I’m expecting that on Judgement Day Jesus will ask me to list and discuss the five points of Calvinism.

So to combat my tendency toward an intellectual faith, I’m drawn into Activism. I hold minarchist libertarian views of politics, so I don’t want to fix society through the law and government programs. (Colin, I think your summary focused too much on one aspect of Activism and maybe it missed the big picture.) But I do think the church should get involved in helping the community, and Christians should start charities and organizations to influence this world for the better. I try to judge my own spiritual development by how many service ministries I’m involved in.

]]> By: Thainamu http://zealfortruth.org/2008/04/the-seven-counterfeit-gospels-part-iii/#comment-6412 Thainamu Thu, 24 Apr 2008 18:58:57 +0000 http://zealfortruth.org/2008/04/the-seven-counterfeit-gospels-part-iii/#comment-6412 Jew said, "I’m prone to Biblicism because it fits my intellectual personality" Whew, I was really glad to read that. The way the first two paragraphs were going along, I thought you were about to confess that you were perfect. Jew said, “I’m prone to Biblicism because it fits my intellectual personality”

Whew, I was really glad to read that. The way the first two paragraphs were going along, I thought you were about to confess that you were perfect.

]]> By: Jew http://zealfortruth.org/2008/04/the-seven-counterfeit-gospels-part-iii/#comment-6413 Jew Thu, 24 Apr 2008 19:53:44 +0000 http://zealfortruth.org/2008/04/the-seven-counterfeit-gospels-part-iii/#comment-6413 I did play all seven letters in Scrabble yesterday. That's perfect, right? I did play all seven letters in Scrabble yesterday. That’s perfect, right?

]]> By: Thainamu http://zealfortruth.org/2008/04/the-seven-counterfeit-gospels-part-iii/#comment-6415 Thainamu Thu, 24 Apr 2008 20:45:33 +0000 http://zealfortruth.org/2008/04/the-seven-counterfeit-gospels-part-iii/#comment-6415 As for an additional -ism, what about Traditonalism or Culturalism. I think there are plenty of people who are "Christians" because they've always nominally accepted Christianity, just like their parents before them. They wouldn't think of turning to any other religion, but they don't think too hard about their own, either. Christianity is just a part of life like motherhood and apple pie and the Fourth of July As for my own personal weakness, I immediately think of social-ism, but not exactly in the way you elaborate it. I don't see myself as part of a big clique, exactly (although with my particular job, it might be said that I work as part of a big Christian clique), but I do put a lot of importance on "network of fulfilling Christian relationships." I don't want to go to church just for good preaching or good singing or correct theology. I admit it--I want some friends there. As for an additional -ism, what about Traditonalism or Culturalism. I think there are plenty of people who are “Christians” because they’ve always nominally accepted Christianity, just like their parents before them. They wouldn’t think of turning to any other religion, but they don’t think too hard about their own, either. Christianity is just a part of life like motherhood and apple pie and the Fourth of July

As for my own personal weakness, I immediately think of social-ism, but not exactly in the way you elaborate it. I don’t see myself as part of a big clique, exactly (although with my particular job, it might be said that I work as part of a big Christian clique), but I do put a lot of importance on “network of fulfilling Christian relationships.” I don’t want to go to church just for good preaching or good singing or correct theology. I admit it–I want some friends there.

]]> By: Chris A http://zealfortruth.org/2008/04/the-seven-counterfeit-gospels-part-iii/#comment-6432 Chris A Fri, 25 Apr 2008 15:34:33 +0000 http://zealfortruth.org/2008/04/the-seven-counterfeit-gospels-part-iii/#comment-6432 This morning I was thinking about this article, and something occurred to me. Most of the "isms" are representative of spiritual imbalance. Some of their qualities are right and good within the proper context, but they when they outgrow that context they become a problem. Well, I was particularly thinking about mysticism. Many experiences are biblical, but people get into trouble when the pursuit of the experience becomes the supreme objective. But with respect to emotion, I began to think about joy. Is joy an emotion? Perhaps, but it is not fickle and should be a consistent part of the Christian experience. So we shouldn't chase after joy, we should just always have it. It is the natural result of having faith in God, and is a fruit of the recreated human spirit (Galatians 5:22). "Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power of the Holy Ghost." (Romans 15:13) Do you feel weak? Get full of joy because the joy of the Lord is your strength (Nehemiah 8:10). You cannot live in the presence of God and not have joy because in his presence is fullness of joy (Psalm 16:11). I am convinced that many have not experienced this joy. It is supernatural and incomparable with mere natural emotion. In fact, a Christian can and should have this joy during the most trying of circumstances. What would make Paul and Silas sing praises to God after being beaten and thrown into prison? Supernatural joy that led to their abounding in hope through the power of the Holy Ghost when God shook that place with an earthquake and busted them out of jail. Anyway I was just meditating on the joy of the Lord this morning and thought I would share that. I'll leave you with this final scripture. "For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost." (Romans 14:17) This morning I was thinking about this article, and something occurred to me. Most of the “isms” are representative of spiritual imbalance. Some of their qualities are right and good within the proper context, but they when they outgrow that context they become a problem.

Well, I was particularly thinking about mysticism. Many experiences are biblical, but people get into trouble when the pursuit of the experience becomes the supreme objective. But with respect to emotion, I began to think about joy. Is joy an emotion? Perhaps, but it is not fickle and should be a consistent part of the Christian experience. So we shouldn’t chase after joy, we should just always have it. It is the natural result of having faith in God, and is a fruit of the recreated human spirit (Galatians 5:22).

“Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power of the Holy Ghost.”
(Romans 15:13)

Do you feel weak? Get full of joy because the joy of the Lord is your strength (Nehemiah 8:10). You cannot live in the presence of God and not have joy because in his presence is fullness of joy (Psalm 16:11). I am convinced that many have not experienced this joy. It is supernatural and incomparable with mere natural emotion. In fact, a Christian can and should have this joy during the most trying of circumstances. What would make Paul and Silas sing praises to God after being beaten and thrown into prison? Supernatural joy that led to their abounding in hope through the power of the Holy Ghost when God shook that place with an earthquake and busted them out of jail.

Anyway I was just meditating on the joy of the Lord this morning and thought I would share that. I’ll leave you with this final scripture.

“For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.”
(Romans 14:17)

]]> By: Colin http://zealfortruth.org/2008/04/the-seven-counterfeit-gospels-part-iii/#comment-6433 Colin Fri, 25 Apr 2008 15:44:37 +0000 http://zealfortruth.org/2008/04/the-seven-counterfeit-gospels-part-iii/#comment-6433 Thanks Chris. I fully agree with your point. It is a great encouragement. Thanks Chris. I fully agree with your point. It is a great encouragement.

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