Ron Paul talks about this on CNN this morning:

Anyway, I respect your courage in identifying what obviously is a conspiracy. The word “conspiracy” provokes an immediate reactionary response from those who are ready to pounce on you and destroy your credibility. Anyone who exposes a conspiracy (and there are many) are labeled conspiracy theorists - a term meant to discredit people. While there are certainly many ridiculous conspiracies out there, we should understand that one need only to analyze the institutions involved in a particular matter and ascertain their obvious potential motives to get a glimpse of what is going on.

So the question is: que bono? Whose interests are being protected? Who stands to gain or retain (at least) power by the suppression of the message of freedom? There are many obvious answers. I will not speculate on which ones are most pertinent in this instance, but just think how a Ron Paul presidency would impact that fascist powers at work in our government. How hard would it be for corporate America to dictate policy without being exposed outright?

And let me say this about the 9/11 Truth Movement: I do not subscribe to all of the theories presented on this, but one this is for certain. Many of these theories are indeed more plausible than the official version of events, which holds that those buildings (including WTC7 that wasn’t even hit by a plane) crumbled into rubble because of the heat of the fires, when 19 Arab men with box cutters infiltrated a billion dollar security system. Like Judge Judy says, “Don’t pee on my leg and tell me it’s raining.” People can call me a tin-foil hat person if they want, but I do not believe that. The reason these so-called fringe 9/11 Truth people follow Ron Paul is because they realize he understands that measures such as the Patriot Act were enacted on the basis of power that was gained following these attacks.

***Rant over***

Anyway, I supported Dr. Paul and I still do. I knew the establishment would pull out all the stops on him. And Colin, I apologize ahead of time if my incendiary comments bring the lunatics out of the wood work. Sometimes I just can’t help myself.

I would love to discuss the conspiracy theories out there (I was once interested in conspiracy theories and still own a copy of Vatican Assassins).

I would like to let the GOP know that I will absolutley not vote for John McCain. Our country can not afford a World Empire mentality, and so I will vote Democrat. I feel they can do the least amount of damage for our credability in the views of the world. Then 4 years from now the Ron Paul Revolution will elect a new leader to start getting us back on track.

It’s easy to mock things that one doesn’t understand. Too bad the emphasis is on the mockery, rather than the understanding.

Nice article, and thanks for the update. I’m interested in what comes of this, if anything.

Of course conspiracies exist. But some are a lot more plausible, and at least have some evidence. Others have no credibility. It is obvious that Ron Paul is being “conspired” against on the local level - and possibly by larger elements in the GOP. It is less obvious that the moon landing was fake, or that 9/11 was done by the US government.

Colin

However is it necessary to always repeat the media mantras such as Ron bots and conspiracies etc.? I realize you built in a disclaimer of them being a small percentage however is this some sort of way of trying to preserve creditability with the non-Ron Paul supporters?

Hopefully more people when exposed to these shenanigans will venture to look beyond the fabricated false media persona of Ron Paul and look at the real man and his ideals more in depth. As the economy approaches meltdown they will realize he has been warning of these things for thirty years. Then perhaps they may realize his ideals are not kooky or out there, they are time tested proven methods and solutions for fixing it. Perhaps things are not painful enough for most however they soon will be if we do not change course soon, which appears unlikely with the current crop in authority.

One more thing this is more then Ron Paul this is a movement that will continue after the elections. It will not die in a few months. It may loose a few summer patriots and sunshine soldiers however the core group will remain. We are coming no matter how long it takes because we are sick of being ruled by our inferiors because of our past lack of involvement, namely due to our distaste for politics in general. That has changed we will not sit back any longer and let our freedoms be systematically taken from us in the name of security and host of other lies.

Oh! CTRL-C as in COPY! Now I get it!

It’s not about “auto-degrading” RP’s supporters. I am one. But it has been my experience that every single time we write a RP article, we get quite a number of responses that are merely copied rants about 9/11, the Bilderbergers or some other nonsense. It makes me less inclined to write these articles because it just gums up our site. This happens with no other subject.

This isn’t defamation or degradation - it is a matter of fact and history. It
doesn’t degrade Paul, his message or his supporters. But it does provide a fair way to hopefully discourage individuals from using Ron Paul as a mechanism to promote their ideas completely off subject or without invitation.

We aren’t in the mindset of censorship or banning or the like here - so we allow it. This permissiveness requires some basic guidelines and disclaimers on our part. In no where has this been more necessary than with those who use Ron Paul to proselytize conspiracy theories.

The comments are here for give-and-take discussion - they are not an open mic.

I had the same thought! For those who are confused, the CTRL-C key combination is the standard Unix and Linux way of closing or stopping a program. It’s a geek thing. Windows uses CTRL-C as the keyboard shortcut for copying a block of text.

I’m a RP supporter and don’t think we had the majority in the room until after we heard Mitt Romney “blubbering” over the very man he was bitterly against before he dropped out. You could see how transparent his speech was. It was shallow & totally unbelievable.

Then after Ron Paul spoke the momentum reached a breaking point for the powers that be. I honestly believed that was the first time may former Mitt Romney & MCCain supporters actually heard Ron Paul speak and learn what he stood for.

After Bob Beers cowardly left the building to prevent 22 additional RP delegates from being elected (9 congressional delegates were being counted and preliminary numbers showed RP in the lead for all 9), I spoke to at least 5 McCain supporters with “MCCain” stickers on that said they are sicking around till the bitter end. They couldn’t believe what the party had just done, and they really liked what RP had to say. Two even said they would prefer to vote for RP over MCCain.

The Revolution is spreading. If you don’t get on the train you will be left at the station.

-Leonard

Then after Ron Paul spoke the momentum reached a breaking point for the powers that be. I honestly believed that was the first time may former Mitt Romney & MCCain supporters actually heard Ron Paul speak and learn what he stood for.

Leonard, thanks for the first-hand account. I am not surprise that RP won over people with his speaking. I have found that most people who disagree with him have never actually heard him make his case. They hear “libertarian” and presume “wants everyone to use drugs” and then summarily dismiss him.

Just a note on the 9/11 thing. There are many unbelievable theories roaming around out there but this RP supporter would only like to see one thing happen regarding this matter. That being a new investigation to answer the 400 questions submitted to the 9/11 Commission by the families of the victims. The official report does not address these questions. I think we can all agree that the families deserve at least that much. Oh, and perhaps Cheney and Bush could testify under oath publicly, just once for the record.

Thanks for posting on this topic and allowing me to comment.

Overall, I appreciate and agree in general with your views expressed above on this matter, though I also concur with/second to varying degrees the criticisms as well. Colin, please do not take my support for the criticisms as an indication that I believe your motivations are suspect, I do not. Your views directly regarding the main issue here, the GOP current powers that be/the interests they represent apparently willing to do anything to maintain their power, provide sufficient evidence to me that you are motivated to support what is right.

Please consider the following:

Do well meaning people sometimes draw the wrong conclusions despite their best intentions? I believe so and for numerous reasons, one of which is by reaching a conclusion based on incomplete or flawed information through no fault of their own.

Does the fact that many implausible, “extreme”(?), poorly supported, etc. theories of conspiracies are advanced mean that is wise to take an initial position that all “conspiracy theories” are absolutely guilty until proven innocent beyond all shadow of doubt and are best just dismissed and ridiculed out of hand? Would it be perhaps more logical/unbiased to remain neutral/uncommited on conspiracy theories of great import, considering all pertinent information as it comes out and remaining open to wherever the facts lead rather than what the majority believes or what conclusion is shouted loudest and most often. Is a conclusion of: “inconclusive based on available facts/evidence at this time” an unreasonable choice in many instances or must all participants reach a yes or no opinion on all such matters within a set time frame?

Thanks for your time and space.

BTW, do you like to read books?

Do well meaning people sometimes draw the wrong conclusions despite their best intentions? I believe so and for numerous reasons, one of which is by reaching a conclusion based on incomplete or flawed information through no fault of their own.

Of course they do. Most socialists don’t adhere to that philosophy so they can enslave people and put elites in power - they genuinely think it will help others.

Does the fact that many implausible, “extreme”(?), poorly supported, etc. theories of conspiracies are advanced mean that is wise to take an initial position that all “conspiracy theories” are absolutely guilty until proven innocent beyond all shadow of doubt and are best just dismissed and ridiculed out of hand?…a set time frame?

Inductive reasoning requires that any theory, conspiracy or otherwise, bear the burden of proof. I am not required to believe them until they are disproven. Rather, it is rational to not accept any theory until it is proven conclusively, or unless a theory is at least supported through reasonable deductive reasoning.

BTW, do you like to read books?

Yes I read books.

Regarding the Ron Paul issue, there isn’t necessarily any conspiracy at work. This could just as well be independent party leaders seeking to appear in line with the final decision. Regardless, it is an appalling offense and should be addressed by the party leaders. This kind of shenanigans should be a career ender for any party officials caught doing so. The lack of a strong response does imply collusion or at least acceptance of unethical behavior.

My initial response to Ron Paul was firm acceptance. My current response is that I would literally vote for any other candidate by either party before I would vote for Paul. My sanity test for this election cycle was Iraq. Anyone claiming we can or should pull out immediately is either insane or dishonest. I think there is plenty of reason to argue the war was a mistake (I disagree, but I can see why others would think this), but now that we are there we need to be careful in how we pull out. Both Hillary and Obama would be more conservative in their pullout than what Paul has described. Overall, his mostly isolationist foreign policy would be a very dangerous approach, and is likely a major reason he lacks mainstream support. While I love his domestic policy, the damage he would do internationally is even worse than a another 8 years of deficit spending.

I agree that the 9/11 commission was more of a government stamp of approval, rather than a real investigation. I would favor a lot more investigation on the matter.

My current response is that I would literally vote for any other candidate by either party before I would vote for Paul. My sanity test for this election cycle was Iraq. Anyone claiming we can or should pull out immediately is either insane or dishonest.

Now that would be an amazing piece right there.

I have heard this line of reasoning over and over with respect to the Kennedy assassination for instance. But if one has time to study the matter, he comes to the conclusion that many people did leak important information. Some of them met untimely and “accidental” deaths. That is a fact. The most recent evidence surrounding the involvement of the CIA was brought to light by E. Howard Hunt, who taped a confession about the event on his deathbed. He was a one-time CIA operative (mostly known for his involvement in the Watergate scandal) who described himself as a minor player in the conspiracy. He places most of the blame on the shoulders of LBJ, but his taped confession indicates that duties assigned to carrying out the assassination were compartmentalized so that each party knew only what he had to know. So the question is not whether people will leak information. Rather the question is: how many people have leaked information and have either been ignored or silenced.

Pour me another cup of crazy please!

“Inductive reasoning requires that any theory, conspiracy or otherwise, bear the burden of proof. I am not required to believe them until they are disproven. Rather, it is rational to not accept any theory until it is proven conclusively, or unless a theory is at least supported through reasonable deductive reasoning.”

I suspect we are essentially on the same page. My salient points are:

1) reach your own conclusions based on your own independent research without regard to conclusions reached by others or personal bias(es) for a desired “truth”

2) Taking an interim(perhaps for life) position of “inconclusive” pending further information is in many instances the most logical/rational position. I mostly assign probabilities that change over time as new information/facts/evidence becomes available.

3) Be open to the possibility that some things you believed to be a 100% percent lock as eternal truth may at some point be proven less so or even 100% false

4) somewhat redundant given 1 above but also so important and difficult to achieve that restatement is beneficial: Do not allow a search for a desired truth blind you to the TRUTH or How can you find the Truth if the Truth is not what you seek.

Re: Books

Have you ever read “The Creature from Jekyll Island”? If so, any comments? If not I recommend you read it.

History is written by the victors.

“gmason08, the problem with most conspiracy theories is that they require far too many participants willing to remain silent to be plausible. A secret shared with too many isn’t a secret anymore, since eventually someone will leak it.”

What you stated above is frequently cited as an expedient means to short circuit further investigation of a “conspiracy” hypothesis by large numbers of people. I am not saying that is what you are doing, just pointing out that such red herring falacies have no relevence to the merits or lack thereof to any particular theory. Do ever larger numbers of people privy to a complete conspiracy/aware they are part of a conspiracy increase the probability that one or more will wittingly or not reveal all or part of that conspiracy-YES. Does the fact that outsiders examining whether or not a particular conspiracy theory is true or not posit that such a conspiracy would require large numbers of people to be involve(but more critically in the know) prove conclusively no such conspiracy can exist(x number cannot keep a secret)-NO.

Atanamis, are all functionaries to all activities privy to the activity to which they serve as functionaires? If myself and another individual ask you to pick us up in your car at a specific intersection at a specific time and you do so without realizing that we just robbed the bank at the other end of the block you have served our conspiracy to rob that bank but you have no idea you were advancing the goals of a conspiracy and therefore have no problem maintaining that secret because you haven’t a clue.

This sort of thing is quite a routine practice for large, classified programs as a standard and simple precaution to maintain secrecy on projects involving thousands of people. In fact there is a specific/uniquely titled security clearance for exactly what I have described. Perhaps you are familiar with that?

On the other hand, what number of people being in on a “conspiracy” or any secret would make that conspiracy or secret impossible to keep? The Manhattan Project to construct the first atomic bombs had a very large number of people involved and completely in the know as to exactly what they were up to yet they successfully maintained that secret for years, in fact they maintained the secret as long as was necessary.

I did not wish to become engaged in a lengthy conversation regarding “conspiracies” or “conspiracy theories” and I definitely am not here to advocate for or against any particular conspiracy theory. I am only interested in having as many people as possible interested in seeking TRUTH in all matters of consequence and that as few as possible are not deceived or manipulated away from discovering critical “TRUTHS”. My view is the more people that find TRUTH the better for us all. Unfortunately, truth is very difficult to find under the best of circumstances and history shows that many, for various reasons, wittingly and not, deliberately and not obstruct and obfuscate the search for truth.

Points 1-4 all look excellent and think they summarize my own personal philosophy and the philosophy of this website. Kudos to putting it so succinctly.

I have heard excellent things about “The Creature from Jekyll Island.” I will be sure to read it soon.

If you’d like, we post book reviews/analysis on this site. A review might benefit many of the libertarian Christians here.

Colin

I this is the first time(day) I have been to this site. I like what I see/read and will make a point to return as time permits(bookmarking-now) and have enjoyed our exchange. Thanks for your kind words and for graciously hosting my words.

Please do try to read “The Creature from Jekyll Island” in the near future.
I may(should) try to write a complete book review soon but I do have some brief comments now.

Do read the entire book, it is long and time is precious but it is important to get the full sweep of the extensive information covered. I also recommend not getting bogged down if a particular technical point is not understood at first, read it like a history book (it is), most of the critical technical points will become clear as readers progress through, you will not become lost further on if you fail to fully grasp a technical monetary science concept when first presented.

I will say that it is a very worthwhile and very readable book, even to the point where ALL would benefit for having done so but also that I do not fully concur with all the authors conclusions(yet I can only recall few and minor differences). I believe the author did a very good job of citing primary sources to support the history presented as well as pointing out to the reader where available supporting sources are less than desired and admitting those points remain a grey area in the historical record. There was one exception to the preceding statement, in my opinion, not due to lack of primary sources but in the way the events occured chronologically and how those established events were presented. The events were not taken out of sequence, just that some readers may get the impression that those events occured in a more compressed time frame than the time frame in which they actually occured. I do not believe in that instance it was deliberate, that it weakens the asserted root cause of those events and most importantly, the entire episode is a minor matter, if discounted entirely the primary conclusions are just as valid.

Again, I do hope you will read this book soon Colin, I believe you will find it informative and I would very much like to hear your opinion.

Take care.

Perhaps I should have mentioned this outset that I am an Austrian and am very familiar with the history and policies of the Fed. nevertheless, this is a book I haven’t read and seems to be somewhat of a standard as far as understanding Fed history.

Thanks!

Colin

Did you hear that, Mr. Costiga, former President of Italy? All you 9/11 fire and rescue workers? Colin says you’re all ridiculous. Time to pack up and go home. He’s the one with the Zeal for Truth. Says so right on his half-assed banner.

America has arrogantly claimed to be the world police officer. This self-appointed title soon is to end. The world businesses and governments are turning away from American government credit requests, bad checks, and endless debt.

To be the bully police officer in town requires wealth and America has sold and continues to sell hers in a variety of ways.

The American global empire party is almost over, the world is recognizing this, yet our self-absorbed arrogance blinds us to the truth. Reality bites and the pain are soon upon us.

This sort of politics sucks, but it is NOT new. It is our duty, not as supporters of this candidate or that, but as citizens, to report this, to demand investigations, to demand justice in how our votes are counted.

Even if you don’t want to vote for Ron Paul you should be protesting these actions and demanding an investigation and recount etc. If no quarter is given to such demands, remove those in charge, a vot of no confidence is appropriate. Demanding their removal is appropriate. Litigation is appropriate. Do what it takes, within the law, to get your voice heard.

Follow the historic coverage here:

http://bob-beers-and-sue-lowden.blogspot.com/