<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><!-- generator="wordpress/2.1.3" -->
<rss version="2.0" 
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/">
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Axis of Evil: Disembodied Rulers?</title>
	<link>http://zealfortruth.org/2008/01/axis-of-evil-disembodied-rulers/</link>
	<description></description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 15:58:15 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.1.3</generator>

	<item>
		<title>By: Darius</title>
		<link>http://zealfortruth.org/2008/01/axis-of-evil-disembodied-rulers/#comment-3520</link>
		<author>Darius</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jan 2008 19:00:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://zealfortruth.org/2008/01/axis-of-evil-disembodied-rulers/#comment-3520</guid>
					<description>Typically, "against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world" is understood to mean Satan and his SPIRITUAL minions, not actual human rulers or governments.  Changing that interpretation is taking the verse out of its original meaning and context.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Typically, &#8220;against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world&#8221; is understood to mean Satan and his SPIRITUAL minions, not actual human rulers or governments.  Changing that interpretation is taking the verse out of its original meaning and context.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jasen Tracy</title>
		<link>http://zealfortruth.org/2008/01/axis-of-evil-disembodied-rulers/#comment-3538</link>
		<author>Jasen Tracy</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jan 2008 22:48:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://zealfortruth.org/2008/01/axis-of-evil-disembodied-rulers/#comment-3538</guid>
					<description>If Satan is the god of this age Chris' point is still valid, even though I most agree with you on that passage.  The "spiritual wickedness in high places" phrase is interesting though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If Satan is the god of this age Chris&#8217; point is still valid, even though I most agree with you on that passage.  The &#8220;spiritual wickedness in high places&#8221; phrase is interesting though.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Chris Austere</title>
		<link>http://zealfortruth.org/2008/01/axis-of-evil-disembodied-rulers/#comment-3567</link>
		<author>Chris Austere</author>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2008 20:39:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://zealfortruth.org/2008/01/axis-of-evil-disembodied-rulers/#comment-3567</guid>
					<description>"Typically, “against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world” is understood to mean Satan and his SPIRITUAL minions, not actual human rulers or governments. Changing that interpretation is taking the verse out of its original meaning and context."

Darius, I did not mean to suggest that the text is speaking of "actual human rulers or governments." I simply pointed out that there is a scriptural principle that these "spiritual minion", as you called them, influence governing bodies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Typically, “against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world” is understood to mean Satan and his SPIRITUAL minions, not actual human rulers or governments. Changing that interpretation is taking the verse out of its original meaning and context.&#8221;</p>
<p>Darius, I did not mean to suggest that the text is speaking of &#8220;actual human rulers or governments.&#8221; I simply pointed out that there is a scriptural principle that these &#8220;spiritual minion&#8221;, as you called them, influence governing bodies.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: thainamu</title>
		<link>http://zealfortruth.org/2008/01/axis-of-evil-disembodied-rulers/#comment-3597</link>
		<author>thainamu</author>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Jan 2008 03:44:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://zealfortruth.org/2008/01/axis-of-evil-disembodied-rulers/#comment-3597</guid>
					<description>I've always thought the "prince" in v. 13 was some kind of evil demon, and "Michael" was an angel.  A couple translations even put it that way.

Is that what you meant, or do you mean that the prince referred to in the verse was a human ruler run by a demon?  Or ?

Here is some random thing I found:

&lt;blockquote&gt;c. The prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me: Since this prince is able to oppose the angelic messenger to Daniel, we know this is more than a man. This prince is some kind of angelic being, and we know he is an evil angelic being because he opposed the word of God coming to Daniel and stood against the angelic messenger.

i. The word prince has the idea of a ruler or authority. This fits in well with the New Testament idea that angelic ranks - including demonic forces - are organized and have a hierarchy (Ephesians 1:21, Ephesians 6:12, Colossians 1:16, Colossians 2:15).

ii. Apparently, this was a demon of high rank that opposed the answer to prayer. On three occasions, Jesus referred to Satan as the prince of this world (John 12:31, 14:30, and 16:11).&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I hate to think of a ruler of any nation completely controlled by Satan, but there are one or two current nation leaders that one might wonder about.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve always thought the &#8220;prince&#8221; in v. 13 was some kind of evil demon, and &#8220;Michael&#8221; was an angel.  A couple translations even put it that way.</p>
<p>Is that what you meant, or do you mean that the prince referred to in the verse was a human ruler run by a demon?  Or ?</p>
<p>Here is some random thing I found:</p>
<blockquote><p>c. The prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me: Since this prince is able to oppose the angelic messenger to Daniel, we know this is more than a man. This prince is some kind of angelic being, and we know he is an evil angelic being because he opposed the word of God coming to Daniel and stood against the angelic messenger.</p>
<p>i. The word prince has the idea of a ruler or authority. This fits in well with the New Testament idea that angelic ranks - including demonic forces - are organized and have a hierarchy (Ephesians 1:21, Ephesians 6:12, Colossians 1:16, Colossians 2:15).</p>
<p>ii. Apparently, this was a demon of high rank that opposed the answer to prayer. On three occasions, Jesus referred to Satan as the prince of this world (John 12:31, 14:30, and 16:11).</p></blockquote>
<p>I hate to think of a ruler of any nation completely controlled by Satan, but there are one or two current nation leaders that one might wonder about.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Chris Austere</title>
		<link>http://zealfortruth.org/2008/01/axis-of-evil-disembodied-rulers/#comment-3603</link>
		<author>Chris Austere</author>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Jan 2008 22:32:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://zealfortruth.org/2008/01/axis-of-evil-disembodied-rulers/#comment-3603</guid>
					<description>Thainamu, 

I think the commentary you quoted is basically correct. However, I think if we look at the complete context of the book of Daniel, we see that a lot of the resistance the Hebrews faced was due to King Nebachudnezzer. So I think it is obvious that there was some satanic influence. I DO NOT think that any government is completely controlled by Satan. That sounds like the Calvinist idea of "total depravity", which I don't think scripture supports. The literal reign of Anti-Christ is the only instance in which governments will be under complete satanic dominion. Humans have a will, and that will can be influenced by God or the Devil by way of angelic or demonic messengers. Having said that, I have no doubt that the government of any given nation can be, is, and has been under the influence of messengers from both kingdoms - the U.S. included.

The important thing to understand is this: both the will of God and the will of Satan is accomplished on the earth through human beings. We have the choice of yielding our members for the purposes of righteousness or unrighteousness (Romans 6:13). However, those who remain in the kingdom of darkness are obviously more susceptible to demonic influence. This does not mean that a Christian is automatically immune to being used an instrument of unrighteousness, hence Romans 6:13. Remember what Jesus said to Simon Peter, his own disciple? He said, "Get behind me, Satan!" - indicating that Peter had yielded his tongue as a member of unrighteousness when he contradicted Jesus (Matthew 16:23).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thainamu, </p>
<p>I think the commentary you quoted is basically correct. However, I think if we look at the complete context of the book of Daniel, we see that a lot of the resistance the Hebrews faced was due to King Nebachudnezzer. So I think it is obvious that there was some satanic influence. I DO NOT think that any government is completely controlled by Satan. That sounds like the Calvinist idea of &#8220;total depravity&#8221;, which I don&#8217;t think scripture supports. The literal reign of Anti-Christ is the only instance in which governments will be under complete satanic dominion. Humans have a will, and that will can be influenced by God or the Devil by way of angelic or demonic messengers. Having said that, I have no doubt that the government of any given nation can be, is, and has been under the influence of messengers from both kingdoms - the U.S. included.</p>
<p>The important thing to understand is this: both the will of God and the will of Satan is accomplished on the earth through human beings. We have the choice of yielding our members for the purposes of righteousness or unrighteousness (Romans 6:13). However, those who remain in the kingdom of darkness are obviously more susceptible to demonic influence. This does not mean that a Christian is automatically immune to being used an instrument of unrighteousness, hence Romans 6:13. Remember what Jesus said to Simon Peter, his own disciple? He said, &#8220;Get behind me, Satan!&#8221; - indicating that Peter had yielded his tongue as a member of unrighteousness when he contradicted Jesus (Matthew 16:23).</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Governmental Ministers of God at Zeal For Truth</title>
		<link>http://zealfortruth.org/2008/01/axis-of-evil-disembodied-rulers/#comment-4195</link>
		<author>Governmental Ministers of God at Zeal For Truth</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jan 2008 17:08:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://zealfortruth.org/2008/01/axis-of-evil-disembodied-rulers/#comment-4195</guid>
					<description>[...] my previous two articles, Axis of Evil: Disembodied Rulers? Parts I and II, we discussed how governments are sometimes used as agents of Satan’s kingdom. This should [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] my previous two articles, Axis of Evil: Disembodied Rulers? Parts I and II, we discussed how governments are sometimes used as agents of Satan’s kingdom. This should [&#8230;]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
</channel>
</rss>
