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	<title>Comments on: Abortion as Eviction: Property Rights, the Child and the Womb - Part I</title>
	<link>http://zealfortruth.org/2007/12/abortion-as-eviction-property-rights-the-child-and-the-womb-part-i/</link>
	<description></description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 12:38:20 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Jew</title>
		<link>http://zealfortruth.org/2007/12/abortion-as-eviction-property-rights-the-child-and-the-womb-part-i/#comment-2944</link>
		<author>Jew</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Dec 2007 17:53:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://zealfortruth.org/2007/12/abortion-as-eviction-property-rights-the-child-and-the-womb-part-i/#comment-2944</guid>
					<description>I've heard that argument before, and it's the only pro-abortion justification that makes much sense to me. Abortion as it exists today does &lt;i&gt;not&lt;/i&gt; meet the eviction argument standard, though. Currently (in America at least) an abortion requires actively killing the unborn child. Evictionism would still consider that to be murder. Evictionism only permits the woman to remove the fetus from her body, not to actively kill it before or after removal.

But the whole thing seems a bit silly to me. The baby isn't trespassing. It didn't purposely decide to enter the womb. We've got to use a bit of common sense here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve heard that argument before, and it&#8217;s the only pro-abortion justification that makes much sense to me. Abortion as it exists today does <i>not</i> meet the eviction argument standard, though. Currently (in America at least) an abortion requires actively killing the unborn child. Evictionism would still consider that to be murder. Evictionism only permits the woman to remove the fetus from her body, not to actively kill it before or after removal.</p>
<p>But the whole thing seems a bit silly to me. The baby isn&#8217;t trespassing. It didn&#8217;t purposely decide to enter the womb. We&#8217;ve got to use a bit of common sense here.</p>
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		<title>By: SUZANNE</title>
		<link>http://zealfortruth.org/2007/12/abortion-as-eviction-property-rights-the-child-and-the-womb-part-i/#comment-2945</link>
		<author>SUZANNE</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Dec 2007 18:14:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://zealfortruth.org/2007/12/abortion-as-eviction-property-rights-the-child-and-the-womb-part-i/#comment-2945</guid>
					<description>I think it's a ridiculous argument.

Suppose there's a blizzard outside. Someone comes inside my house, freezing, no coat on. 

Do I have the right to send him out into the cold, with no jacket, knowing full well he could die of hypothermia?

We have an obligation towards other human beings.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it&#8217;s a ridiculous argument.</p>
<p>Suppose there&#8217;s a blizzard outside. Someone comes inside my house, freezing, no coat on. </p>
<p>Do I have the right to send him out into the cold, with no jacket, knowing full well he could die of hypothermia?</p>
<p>We have an obligation towards other human beings.</p>
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		<title>By: Colin Elliott</title>
		<link>http://zealfortruth.org/2007/12/abortion-as-eviction-property-rights-the-child-and-the-womb-part-i/#comment-2946</link>
		<author>Colin Elliott</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Dec 2007 18:14:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://zealfortruth.org/2007/12/abortion-as-eviction-property-rights-the-child-and-the-womb-part-i/#comment-2946</guid>
					<description>But the whole thing seems a bit silly to me. The baby isn’t trespassing. It didn’t purposely decide to enter the womb. We’ve got to use a bit of common sense here.

Exactly. An easement is actually one of the cases I think can be made against Dr. Block's argument.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But the whole thing seems a bit silly to me. The baby isn’t trespassing. It didn’t purposely decide to enter the womb. We’ve got to use a bit of common sense here.</p>
<p>Exactly. An easement is actually one of the cases I think can be made against Dr. Block&#8217;s argument.</p>
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		<title>By: Jew</title>
		<link>http://zealfortruth.org/2007/12/abortion-as-eviction-property-rights-the-child-and-the-womb-part-i/#comment-2947</link>
		<author>Jew</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Dec 2007 18:28:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://zealfortruth.org/2007/12/abortion-as-eviction-property-rights-the-child-and-the-womb-part-i/#comment-2947</guid>
					<description>Suzanne said: "&lt;i&gt;Do I have the right to send him out into the cold, with no jacket, knowing full well he could die of hypothermia?&lt;/i&gt;"

Under a libertarian view of property rights, you have no obligation to let that person into your house. The fact that he's freezing to death does not give him an ethical right to use your property. Repeat after me: a person's &lt;i&gt;need&lt;/i&gt; does not give him a &lt;i&gt;right&lt;/i&gt;.

But from a Christian moral perspective, it's pretty clear that you have to let him in.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Suzanne said: &#8220;<i>Do I have the right to send him out into the cold, with no jacket, knowing full well he could die of hypothermia?</i>&#8221;</p>
<p>Under a libertarian view of property rights, you have no obligation to let that person into your house. The fact that he&#8217;s freezing to death does not give him an ethical right to use your property. Repeat after me: a person&#8217;s <i>need</i> does not give him a <i>right</i>.</p>
<p>But from a Christian moral perspective, it&#8217;s pretty clear that you have to let him in.</p>
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		<title>By: thainamu</title>
		<link>http://zealfortruth.org/2007/12/abortion-as-eviction-property-rights-the-child-and-the-womb-part-i/#comment-2949</link>
		<author>thainamu</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Dec 2007 18:51:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://zealfortruth.org/2007/12/abortion-as-eviction-property-rights-the-child-and-the-womb-part-i/#comment-2949</guid>
					<description>This view on human birth gives me the chills.  As in, it is bizarre and scary.  It seems to me that Dr. Block views all of life in strictly material terms, thus his view is centered around property rights.  That is just bizarre--life is much more than physical, material, or property.

"But the conflict invariably occurs when the mother, who owns her body, no longer wants to permit the child in her body."
...
"But as it stands right now, despite the tragedy of lost life - the mother has every right to evict according to Dr. Block."

If a woman is so worried about a baby trespassing in her womb, maybe she should think ahead and keep something else out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This view on human birth gives me the chills.  As in, it is bizarre and scary.  It seems to me that Dr. Block views all of life in strictly material terms, thus his view is centered around property rights.  That is just bizarre&#8211;life is much more than physical, material, or property.</p>
<p>&#8220;But the conflict invariably occurs when the mother, who owns her body, no longer wants to permit the child in her body.&#8221;<br />
&#8230;<br />
&#8220;But as it stands right now, despite the tragedy of lost life - the mother has every right to evict according to Dr. Block.&#8221;</p>
<p>If a woman is so worried about a baby trespassing in her womb, maybe she should think ahead and keep something else out.</p>
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		<title>By: Colin Elliott</title>
		<link>http://zealfortruth.org/2007/12/abortion-as-eviction-property-rights-the-child-and-the-womb-part-i/#comment-2950</link>
		<author>Colin Elliott</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Dec 2007 19:15:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://zealfortruth.org/2007/12/abortion-as-eviction-property-rights-the-child-and-the-womb-part-i/#comment-2950</guid>
					<description>&lt;i&gt;If a woman is so worried about a baby trespassing in her womb, maybe she should think ahead and keep something else out.&lt;/i&gt;

I agree. Dr. Block does deal with possible objections of this line, but I don't think he does a good enough job. I will cover this later - but essentially, I think there is an implicit contract when a mother let's "something else" in. This doesn't solve the problem when a mother does not agree to it, but that can be dealt with in other ways.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>If a woman is so worried about a baby trespassing in her womb, maybe she should think ahead and keep something else out.</i></p>
<p>I agree. Dr. Block does deal with possible objections of this line, but I don&#8217;t think he does a good enough job. I will cover this later - but essentially, I think there is an implicit contract when a mother let&#8217;s &#8220;something else&#8221; in. This doesn&#8217;t solve the problem when a mother does not agree to it, but that can be dealt with in other ways.</p>
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		<title>By: Darius</title>
		<link>http://zealfortruth.org/2007/12/abortion-as-eviction-property-rights-the-child-and-the-womb-part-i/#comment-2951</link>
		<author>Darius</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Dec 2007 19:39:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://zealfortruth.org/2007/12/abortion-as-eviction-property-rights-the-child-and-the-womb-part-i/#comment-2951</guid>
					<description>"Under a libertarian view of property rights, you have no obligation to let that person into your house. The fact that he’s freezing to death does not give him an ethical right to use your property. Repeat after me: a person’s need does not give him a right."

You are neglecting a rather obvious fact: the baby is already in the house, and it was the choice of the mother and not of the baby to be in the house.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Under a libertarian view of property rights, you have no obligation to let that person into your house. The fact that he’s freezing to death does not give him an ethical right to use your property. Repeat after me: a person’s need does not give him a right.&#8221;</p>
<p>You are neglecting a rather obvious fact: the baby is already in the house, and it was the choice of the mother and not of the baby to be in the house.</p>
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		<title>By: Jasen Tracy</title>
		<link>http://zealfortruth.org/2007/12/abortion-as-eviction-property-rights-the-child-and-the-womb-part-i/#comment-2952</link>
		<author>Jasen Tracy</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Dec 2007 20:23:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://zealfortruth.org/2007/12/abortion-as-eviction-property-rights-the-child-and-the-womb-part-i/#comment-2952</guid>
					<description>&lt;blockquote=Colin&gt;This doesn’t solve the problem when a mother does not agree to it, but that can be dealt with in other ways.&lt;/blockquote&gt;


It doesn't, but that's not the situation 99.9% of the time.  (I didn't actually look that number up, but you get the idea).  People like to bring up rare cases that favor their view more, but we need to look at the overwhelmingly majority situation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote =Colin><p>This doesn’t solve the problem when a mother does not agree to it, but that can be dealt with in other ways.</p></blockquote>
<p>It doesn&#8217;t, but that&#8217;s not the situation 99.9% of the time.  (I didn&#8217;t actually look that number up, but you get the idea).  People like to bring up rare cases that favor their view more, but we need to look at the overwhelmingly majority situation.</p>
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		<title>By: Atanamis</title>
		<link>http://zealfortruth.org/2007/12/abortion-as-eviction-property-rights-the-child-and-the-womb-part-i/#comment-2953</link>
		<author>Atanamis</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Dec 2007 20:31:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://zealfortruth.org/2007/12/abortion-as-eviction-property-rights-the-child-and-the-womb-part-i/#comment-2953</guid>
					<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Under a libertarian view of property rights, you have no obligation to let that person into your house. The fact that he’s freezing to death does not give him an ethical right to use your property. Repeat after me: a person’s need does not give him a right.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

My preferred example is this:
If allow someone to board my airplane, do I have the right to evict them in mid-air while in flight?

Obviously I would not have the right to initially allow them to board my airplane (meaning that contraceptives would be fully permissible). Obviously once I have landed I have every right to safely evict them, at a time and place the will not result in their immediate death (flying them to a remote arctic location and offloading them against their will would also be wrong). 

If Dr Block would agree that I have the right to evict him from my airplane in mid-air after having knowingly allowed him to board, then he has a consistent position which which I disagree. Otherwise, this is simply another attempt to use inconsistent logic to support an arbitrary moral position.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Under a libertarian view of property rights, you have no obligation to let that person into your house. The fact that he’s freezing to death does not give him an ethical right to use your property. Repeat after me: a person’s need does not give him a right.</p></blockquote>
<p>My preferred example is this:<br />
If allow someone to board my airplane, do I have the right to evict them in mid-air while in flight?</p>
<p>Obviously I would not have the right to initially allow them to board my airplane (meaning that contraceptives would be fully permissible). Obviously once I have landed I have every right to safely evict them, at a time and place the will not result in their immediate death (flying them to a remote arctic location and offloading them against their will would also be wrong). </p>
<p>If Dr Block would agree that I have the right to evict him from my airplane in mid-air after having knowingly allowed him to board, then he has a consistent position which which I disagree. Otherwise, this is simply another attempt to use inconsistent logic to support an arbitrary moral position.</p>
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		<title>By: Colin Elliott</title>
		<link>http://zealfortruth.org/2007/12/abortion-as-eviction-property-rights-the-child-and-the-womb-part-i/#comment-2956</link>
		<author>Colin Elliott</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2007 00:57:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://zealfortruth.org/2007/12/abortion-as-eviction-property-rights-the-child-and-the-womb-part-i/#comment-2956</guid>
					<description>Atanamis,

Dr. Block deals with this exact scenario you mention in one of his lectures on the subject. Suffice it to say, I think he dismisses the objection too casually - saying that the baby is not part of the contract so the plane example doesn't matter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Atanamis,</p>
<p>Dr. Block deals with this exact scenario you mention in one of his lectures on the subject. Suffice it to say, I think he dismisses the objection too casually - saying that the baby is not part of the contract so the plane example doesn&#8217;t matter.</p>
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