No other post on this site has so spoken to my heart as this one. I have been really struggling with this issue to varying degrees over the past four or five years. I’m going through/have gone through all of the things you are describing.

I perceive such venom in the churches I have attended/visited for philosophy. I’m not talking Nietzsche or Hobbes, but merely seeking an abstract consistency and cohesive arrangement in faith. Even the word “philosophy” causes this reactionary divide, like the slamming of an iron door on what may have been an enlightening conversation.

I have had gobs of questions, and I think a lot of people at my church are equipped to work on them with me, but refuse to engage them. However, God has not let me down on this and has heard my questions and answered them every time. I ask Him with patience and with faith that he is God (and therefore all knowing) and he reveals the answer in time.

I guess my encouragement to you is to keep asking the questions, but just ask them of God, and people who can actually deal with the issues (but who have not abandoned God as an answerer of the questions - that is key). I find that my relationship with God has been made very intimate by this. I realize that God is not angered or upset at my questions, even though some of his followers may be. He is willing to answer them.

People go astray when they are let down by their church brethren, but also leave God out as well - and seek the answer somewhere else. So my advice to you, and to anyone who deals with this kind of thing, is to use it as an opportunity to draw closer to God.

God has really shown me how to love people in the midst of this, and given me such a peace about it that it really doesn’t bother me. Also, I have the people on this site, which has really filled in the gap of community where my local body has failed in this.

Obviously, it goes without saying that through this, make sure you study the world daily, if even for a few minutes - and try to keep prayer in the forefront of your mind.

I’ve been blessed to work in a Christian organization that does not shy away from higher education at all, and I bet you’d have some great conversations with some of my colleagues. These same colleagues often experience reactions similar to those you describe in their own home churches. In some ways trick is using your education and inquisitive mind as a way to learn more about God while not developing an “I’m smarter, more enlightened, tolerant, etc. than all you people there with little minds” attitude.

Colin, it sounds like you’ve thought this issue through very carefully.

That was the most impressive thing to me about them. If I ever did missionary work, theirs would be the first one I would go to just because of this.

I’ve just had to really wrestle with God on it and he’s supplied answers, not so much my own reasoning. My only premise has been that God says he’s all knowing and that I have access to him through his word and prayer. So I try and take him up on that - and he really has honored it.

This has been one of the greatest things that I have encountered in my relationship with God and has most spoke to me of his personal nature. He knows what I need. He knows my questions and the answer and how to communicate with me.

I think I might get quicker answers, or maybe more seemingly rational answers through men, but they don’t seem to bear out, and they seem to change. Whereas God’s answers have been immutable and reliable, and have spoken to the heart of my questioning.

I am not personally opposed to philosophy, science, or theology per se, but let me try to address this from a New Testament perspective.

“Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily” (Colossians 2:8,9).

If we believe this verse is just as applicable to Christians today as it was in the first century, there is a very real truth here. If I can paraphrase, Paul is saying, “Don’t be deceived by philosophy resulting from human traditions and the basic principles of this age. Don’t allow these things to lead you astray from Christ.” So philosophy, science, and theology are not bad in and of themselves. But if they lead you away from your faith, that is a problem. Remember that Jesus told the Pharisees that they had nullified the word of God by their traditions. I think the same thing can be true of certain philosophies, sciences, and theologies.

Also, scripture makes it clear that spiritual warfare is partly waged in the thought realm. In order for a person to mature spiritually, he must be “transformed” by the renewing of his mind (Romans 12:2). I think this scripture is also pertinent:

“(For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ” (2 Corinthians 10:4,5).

There are certain ways of thinking that must be rejected altogether because they are “imaginations” that exalt themselves above the knowledge of God. One such imagination is that humans evolved from lower levels of beings and gradually developed into more intelligent beings over the ages. The Bible doesn’t teach that. In fact, if we are to believe the Bible, the opposite is true. Humankind fell from their enlightened state to a darkened state of consciousness.

Another thing which hasn’t been completely grasped is that man is not just a mind and a body, but he is a spirit. And the totality of his make-up is spirit, soul (psyche), and body. I don’t consider myself anti-intellectual. If I were, I doubt I would engage in these kinds of discussions on ZFT. However, I read something a missionary wrote years ago that I agree with 100%. He said (and I’m paraphrasing) “Men have crowned the intellect rather than the inner man.” The inner man, the spirit, is the true Christian nature - the “hidden man of the heart”. So while I value the intellect to a certain extent, it takes a distant second to the real me, the new creation.

I read the article, and I have to say that I pretty much agree with everything it said. In fact, I was going to mention the fact that philosophy is really in everything. I think there is a philosophical component to language, civics, etc., as well as cultural philosophy. So to reiterate something from my former post, philosophy in and of itself cannot be bad.

In fact, I would venture to say that Paul’s approach to ministering the Gospel took into account the philosophical attitudes of the various people groups he encountered in order to communicate Jesus to them.

20And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;

21To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.

22To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.

23And this I do for the gospel’s sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you (I Corinthians 9:20-23).

In the first chapter of the same book he makes mention of how the Greeks and the Jews differed in thought (I Corinthians 1:22).

I think what makes me cringe are the horror stories of those who lose their faith at the expense of “education.” This doesn’t only happen in secular universities, but seminaries also. I remember being a freshman in high school, and having to learn about Darwin’s theory of evolution. These days, it wouldn’t bother me a bit. But when I was young and weak in faith, it was really a struggle. I think there is a tendency for educated people to dismiss any kind of religious idea as elementary and sophomoric. The implication often is that if you are educated, you don’t believe in God.

I agree with you Chris but is the result simply “being educated” or was there a seed of doubt in the believer before he or she went to get educated? See, I think that many parents (and churches both), can preserve a sense of ignorance in people - where some things are “just bad” and “just good” without any explanation or willingness to discuss why. This creates doubt itself - which is basically unanswered questions. The reality is that the parents know why, they just fear their kids getting the knowledge and running with it. So when a person leaves this highly sheltered environment and is allowed to explore outside of church and Christianity, they are going to go hog wild.

I would argue that people getting educated and leaving God is the spiritual blowback from these measures.

Well, I would definitely make a distinction between ignorance and doubt. I think a person who is strong in faith can be very comfortable with what he doesn’t know. However, I agree that seeds of doubt often do come from parents and/or churches who, because of intimidation, shy away from addressing certain things. To me, the answer is to embrace what is unknown while rejecting non-biblical explanations. The blowback is very real, and I think that is one reason Christians have openly received “Intelligent Design”, because it is presented as a credible scientific and non-Creationist theory. It seems like this is being done in desperation to fulfill the perceived need to be “relevant”.