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	<title>Comments on: Emerging Impulses: Kingdom Focus</title>
	<link>http://zealfortruth.org/2007/10/emerging-impulses-kingdom-focus/</link>
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	<pubDate>Sat, 20 Mar 2010 22:44:15 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: John Santic</title>
		<link>http://zealfortruth.org/2007/10/emerging-impulses-kingdom-focus/#comment-2077</link>
		<author>John Santic</author>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Oct 2007 20:04:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://zealfortruth.org/2007/10/emerging-impulses-kingdom-focus/#comment-2077</guid>
					<description>Good post, I like the fairness by which you position the emerging church. Far from being an apostate movement as some hard-line reformer types and others who misunderstand claim it to be, it is really a movement of God that seeks holistic Kingdom demonstration without many of the dualisms that define the right and left in Christianity today.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good post, I like the fairness by which you position the emerging church. Far from being an apostate movement as some hard-line reformer types and others who misunderstand claim it to be, it is really a movement of God that seeks holistic Kingdom demonstration without many of the dualisms that define the right and left in Christianity today.</p>
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		<title>By: Laura</title>
		<link>http://zealfortruth.org/2007/10/emerging-impulses-kingdom-focus/#comment-2078</link>
		<author>Laura</author>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Oct 2007 20:44:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://zealfortruth.org/2007/10/emerging-impulses-kingdom-focus/#comment-2078</guid>
					<description>Your post caught my eye, as I am teaching Matthew 10 (the Mission Discourse) tomorrow and the proclamation of the Kingdom is on my mind.  As I read the chapter this morning, I was struck with an observation that seems pertinent to your post: While in the present-tense section (10:5-15) Jesus commands the twelve to proclaim the Kingdom of Heaven, he does not command this in either the future-tense section (16-25) or in the "whoever" section (26-42).  These final two sections of the discourse assume that after the initial phase of the mission (before the resurrection?), we would proclaim Jesus, rather than the Kingdom.  This seems to cohere with the teaching of the epistles.

Might this be another critique of the focus on Kingdom?

I wonder this because I tend toward Kingdom proclamation and the observation this morning has raised questions in my own mind.

I'd love to hear your thoughts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your post caught my eye, as I am teaching Matthew 10 (the Mission Discourse) tomorrow and the proclamation of the Kingdom is on my mind.  As I read the chapter this morning, I was struck with an observation that seems pertinent to your post: While in the present-tense section (10:5-15) Jesus commands the twelve to proclaim the Kingdom of Heaven, he does not command this in either the future-tense section (16-25) or in the &#8220;whoever&#8221; section (26-42).  These final two sections of the discourse assume that after the initial phase of the mission (before the resurrection?), we would proclaim Jesus, rather than the Kingdom.  This seems to cohere with the teaching of the epistles.</p>
<p>Might this be another critique of the focus on Kingdom?</p>
<p>I wonder this because I tend toward Kingdom proclamation and the observation this morning has raised questions in my own mind.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d love to hear your thoughts.</p>
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		<title>By: Jasen Tracy</title>
		<link>http://zealfortruth.org/2007/10/emerging-impulses-kingdom-focus/#comment-2082</link>
		<author>Jasen Tracy</author>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Oct 2007 22:07:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://zealfortruth.org/2007/10/emerging-impulses-kingdom-focus/#comment-2082</guid>
					<description>Laura, that's an interesting observation of Matthew 10.  There are other passages to consider though, such as Paul telling the Colossians (1:13) "For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves."  And it is the gospel of the Kingdom that will be preached to all nations (Mt. 24:14).    

Also, Willard makes the case that the kingdom exists from the beginning.  The Kingdom "God's reign" was a central message of the Old Testament.  Jesus' message (which would still seem valid today) was that "the kingdom has come near," that is, we can now participate in it in a fuller sense.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Laura, that&#8217;s an interesting observation of Matthew 10.  There are other passages to consider though, such as Paul telling the Colossians (1:13) &#8220;For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves.&#8221;  And it is the gospel of the Kingdom that will be preached to all nations (Mt. 24:14).    </p>
<p>Also, Willard makes the case that the kingdom exists from the beginning.  The Kingdom &#8220;God&#8217;s reign&#8221; was a central message of the Old Testament.  Jesus&#8217; message (which would still seem valid today) was that &#8220;the kingdom has come near,&#8221; that is, we can now participate in it in a fuller sense.</p>
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		<title>By: Laura</title>
		<link>http://zealfortruth.org/2007/10/emerging-impulses-kingdom-focus/#comment-2086</link>
		<author>Laura</author>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Oct 2007 23:39:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://zealfortruth.org/2007/10/emerging-impulses-kingdom-focus/#comment-2086</guid>
					<description>Jasen, Jesus did indeed announce that the kingdom was near (and therefore, it is near).  Maybe it's more a matter of proportion.  I guess my concern, for myself and EC, is that we keep the proclamation in balance.  Yes, Jesus announced, brought near, and will bring to perfection his Kingdom, but we learn of this in the gospels, which proclaim him.  

For the most part, I see EC's emphasis as a healthy and much needed correction.  For too long, the preaching of truth was separated from the doing of truth.  It's just that we have such a tendency to swing the pendulum.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jasen, Jesus did indeed announce that the kingdom was near (and therefore, it is near).  Maybe it&#8217;s more a matter of proportion.  I guess my concern, for myself and EC, is that we keep the proclamation in balance.  Yes, Jesus announced, brought near, and will bring to perfection his Kingdom, but we learn of this in the gospels, which proclaim him.  </p>
<p>For the most part, I see EC&#8217;s emphasis as a healthy and much needed correction.  For too long, the preaching of truth was separated from the doing of truth.  It&#8217;s just that we have such a tendency to swing the pendulum.</p>
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		<title>By: Darius</title>
		<link>http://zealfortruth.org/2007/10/emerging-impulses-kingdom-focus/#comment-2087</link>
		<author>Darius</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Oct 2007 00:09:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://zealfortruth.org/2007/10/emerging-impulses-kingdom-focus/#comment-2087</guid>
					<description>I guess I just don't see this perceived lack of "doing of truth" in the traditional evangelical church, at least not in my experience.  This protest is an exaggeration to make the EC sound new and hip, but really it's merely a straw man.  Unless you mean liberal agenda type stuff like social justice and the like (welfare, government takes care of everyone, that kind of social justice).  Then yes, the traditional evangelical church is quite lacking in that area, and thank God!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess I just don&#8217;t see this perceived lack of &#8220;doing of truth&#8221; in the traditional evangelical church, at least not in my experience.  This protest is an exaggeration to make the EC sound new and hip, but really it&#8217;s merely a straw man.  Unless you mean liberal agenda type stuff like social justice and the like (welfare, government takes care of everyone, that kind of social justice).  Then yes, the traditional evangelical church is quite lacking in that area, and thank God!</p>
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		<title>By: Laura</title>
		<link>http://zealfortruth.org/2007/10/emerging-impulses-kingdom-focus/#comment-2090</link>
		<author>Laura</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Oct 2007 00:35:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://zealfortruth.org/2007/10/emerging-impulses-kingdom-focus/#comment-2090</guid>
					<description>Darius, 

Could be my experience talking.  The evangelical church I grew up in focused on knowledge to the extent that a pastor who wanted to start "doing the truth" was run out of the place. I followed, by the way (at the tender age of 19), but apparently the experience has warped my perception.  I spoke a bit too much before thinking.  I stand corrected.  :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Darius, </p>
<p>Could be my experience talking.  The evangelical church I grew up in focused on knowledge to the extent that a pastor who wanted to start &#8220;doing the truth&#8221; was run out of the place. I followed, by the way (at the tender age of 19), but apparently the experience has warped my perception.  I spoke a bit too much before thinking.  I stand corrected.  <img src='http://zealfortruth.org/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: Darius</title>
		<link>http://zealfortruth.org/2007/10/emerging-impulses-kingdom-focus/#comment-2091</link>
		<author>Darius</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Oct 2007 00:57:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://zealfortruth.org/2007/10/emerging-impulses-kingdom-focus/#comment-2091</guid>
					<description>well, perhaps we should define "doing the truth."  What exactly does that mean to you (and the EC)?  Does it mean being a part of the community, reaching out to it and showing them God's love by serving them?  If so, then my Evan. Free church does that, and it is definitely not emerging (in fact, my pastor just said this week that the church would become Emerging over his dead body :)).  If "doing the truth" is helping enact social change at individual, community, and political levels by promoting pro-life and pro-family measures and education, then my traditional evangelical church is at the forefront: it supports two crisis pregnancy centers in the Minneapolis metro area.  If "doing the truth" is reaching out to disabled people and bringing them to church to worship and reaching out to recovering addicts, then count my church in.  

I'm not mentioning this to brag on my church (though I do think very highly of where its leadership is leading it and am blessed to attend such a church) but to say that if the EC is based on a protest against traditional churches' lack of "doing the truth," perhaps many in the EC just haven't looked closely enough.  Painting with such a wide brush is irresponsible at best, and spiritually destructive at worst.  After all, the Body is called to unity, one thing that the EC seems to forget in lambasting traditional evangelicalism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>well, perhaps we should define &#8220;doing the truth.&#8221;  What exactly does that mean to you (and the EC)?  Does it mean being a part of the community, reaching out to it and showing them God&#8217;s love by serving them?  If so, then my Evan. Free church does that, and it is definitely not emerging (in fact, my pastor just said this week that the church would become Emerging over his dead body :)).  If &#8220;doing the truth&#8221; is helping enact social change at individual, community, and political levels by promoting pro-life and pro-family measures and education, then my traditional evangelical church is at the forefront: it supports two crisis pregnancy centers in the Minneapolis metro area.  If &#8220;doing the truth&#8221; is reaching out to disabled people and bringing them to church to worship and reaching out to recovering addicts, then count my church in.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;m not mentioning this to brag on my church (though I do think very highly of where its leadership is leading it and am blessed to attend such a church) but to say that if the EC is based on a protest against traditional churches&#8217; lack of &#8220;doing the truth,&#8221; perhaps many in the EC just haven&#8217;t looked closely enough.  Painting with such a wide brush is irresponsible at best, and spiritually destructive at worst.  After all, the Body is called to unity, one thing that the EC seems to forget in lambasting traditional evangelicalism.</p>
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		<title>By: Laura</title>
		<link>http://zealfortruth.org/2007/10/emerging-impulses-kingdom-focus/#comment-2092</link>
		<author>Laura</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Oct 2007 01:05:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://zealfortruth.org/2007/10/emerging-impulses-kingdom-focus/#comment-2092</guid>
					<description>I'm not part of EC (though I poke around at the edges).  My current church is a nearly 100 year old Baptist church (not a likely candidate for EC).  Therefore, I shall let EC speak for itself.  As for me, I'll ponder it as I run off to catch the bus, and get back at ya later.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not part of EC (though I poke around at the edges).  My current church is a nearly 100 year old Baptist church (not a likely candidate for EC).  Therefore, I shall let EC speak for itself.  As for me, I&#8217;ll ponder it as I run off to catch the bus, and get back at ya later.</p>
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		<title>By: Laura</title>
		<link>http://zealfortruth.org/2007/10/emerging-impulses-kingdom-focus/#comment-2093</link>
		<author>Laura</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Oct 2007 05:06:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://zealfortruth.org/2007/10/emerging-impulses-kingdom-focus/#comment-2093</guid>
					<description>Here's my take:

Theology--AKA truth--is both content and practice.  Practice includes behaviors and affections.  The specific expressions of practice change with culture.  What remains constant is trusting and following God.  

Practice includes behaviors/affections of persons and communities.  We follow Christ as individuals and as a church.  It must be both.  Practice also includes behaviors/affections in the church and the community.

I realize this is quite general.  I'm not sure if the specifics are as important as balance: content and practice, individual and corporate, and inside and outside.

As I see it, that is "doing the truth."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s my take:</p>
<p>Theology&#8211;AKA truth&#8211;is both content and practice.  Practice includes behaviors and affections.  The specific expressions of practice change with culture.  What remains constant is trusting and following God.  </p>
<p>Practice includes behaviors/affections of persons and communities.  We follow Christ as individuals and as a church.  It must be both.  Practice also includes behaviors/affections in the church and the community.</p>
<p>I realize this is quite general.  I&#8217;m not sure if the specifics are as important as balance: content and practice, individual and corporate, and inside and outside.</p>
<p>As I see it, that is &#8220;doing the truth.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Darius</title>
		<link>http://zealfortruth.org/2007/10/emerging-impulses-kingdom-focus/#comment-2096</link>
		<author>Darius</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Oct 2007 12:24:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://zealfortruth.org/2007/10/emerging-impulses-kingdom-focus/#comment-2096</guid>
					<description>Yes, I agree.  My only question is if the EC's protest against traditional evangelicalism in this area is accurate.  I'm sure there are evan. churches that neglect the "doing" part of the Kingdom, but no more than there are ECs that neglect the "truth" part.  In my experience, the E. Free, Baptist, and non-denom churches that I have attended (none of which would be considered EC) did a very solid job of both preaching the Word (truth) and living it and encouraging their members to live it as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, I agree.  My only question is if the EC&#8217;s protest against traditional evangelicalism in this area is accurate.  I&#8217;m sure there are evan. churches that neglect the &#8220;doing&#8221; part of the Kingdom, but no more than there are ECs that neglect the &#8220;truth&#8221; part.  In my experience, the E. Free, Baptist, and non-denom churches that I have attended (none of which would be considered EC) did a very solid job of both preaching the Word (truth) and living it and encouraging their members to live it as well.</p>
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		<title>By: Darius</title>
		<link>http://zealfortruth.org/2007/10/emerging-impulses-kingdom-focus/#comment-2098</link>
		<author>Darius</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Oct 2007 14:24:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://zealfortruth.org/2007/10/emerging-impulses-kingdom-focus/#comment-2098</guid>
					<description>&lt;em&gt;"no more than there are ECs that neglect the "truth" part."&lt;/em&gt;

Case in point, here is Doug Pagitt on Way of the Master radio. 
http://podcast.wayofthemasterradio.com/audio/podcasts/1007/WOTMR-10-22-07-Hour1.mp3

Pagitt is not only weak and/or ignorant in his theology, he's clearly heretical in saying that there is no difference between the afterlife of a Christian and a Muslim.  

Pagitt, since you're all about reading each verse for itself, what does Jesus' statement that He is "the way, the truth, and the life.  No one comes to the Father but through me" mean to you?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>&#8220;no more than there are ECs that neglect the &#8220;truth&#8221; part.&#8221;</em></p>
<p>Case in point, here is Doug Pagitt on Way of the Master radio.<br />
<a href="http://podcast.wayofthemasterradio.com/audio/podcasts/1007/WOTMR-10-22-07-Hour1.mp3" rel="nofollow">http://podcast.wayofthemasterradio.com/audio/podcasts/1007/WOTMR-10-22-07-Hour1.mp3</a></p>
<p>Pagitt is not only weak and/or ignorant in his theology, he&#8217;s clearly heretical in saying that there is no difference between the afterlife of a Christian and a Muslim.  </p>
<p>Pagitt, since you&#8217;re all about reading each verse for itself, what does Jesus&#8217; statement that He is &#8220;the way, the truth, and the life.  No one comes to the Father but through me&#8221; mean to you?</p>
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		<title>By: Bryan</title>
		<link>http://zealfortruth.org/2007/10/emerging-impulses-kingdom-focus/#comment-2100</link>
		<author>Bryan</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Oct 2007 14:53:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://zealfortruth.org/2007/10/emerging-impulses-kingdom-focus/#comment-2100</guid>
					<description>Pagitt is not about reading each verse for itself. What he rallies against in that interview is picking verses out of context and putting them together to form a theology, what he wants is to do a kind of narrative theology which, in his mind, would allow each verse to speak for itself how the original writers intended without having an outside theology imposed on it.  To him, how the interviewer is interpreting scripture is doing it through a modern lens that no one who wrote it would have understood.

There is an ongoing thread on the &lt;a href="http://forums.zealfortruth.org/viewtopic.php?p=65169#65169" rel="nofollow"&gt;discussion board&lt;/a&gt; about this interview.  I think both of the people involved were awful.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pagitt is not about reading each verse for itself. What he rallies against in that interview is picking verses out of context and putting them together to form a theology, what he wants is to do a kind of narrative theology which, in his mind, would allow each verse to speak for itself how the original writers intended without having an outside theology imposed on it.  To him, how the interviewer is interpreting scripture is doing it through a modern lens that no one who wrote it would have understood.</p>
<p>There is an ongoing thread on the <a href="http://forums.zealfortruth.org/viewtopic.php?p=65169#65169" rel="nofollow">discussion board</a> about this interview.  I think both of the people involved were awful.</p>
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		<title>By: Laura</title>
		<link>http://zealfortruth.org/2007/10/emerging-impulses-kingdom-focus/#comment-2102</link>
		<author>Laura</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Oct 2007 15:09:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://zealfortruth.org/2007/10/emerging-impulses-kingdom-focus/#comment-2102</guid>
					<description>"My only question is if the EC’s protest against traditional evangelicalism in this area is accurate"

It is accurate in some circles--maybe in the specific churches against which they are protesting.  There are evangelical churches that are so concerned about accurate content in theology that they neglect the downtrodden in their neighborhood or who fail to speak up for justice, preferring rather to complain to one another about how terrible things are.  On the other hand, most evangelical churches do  not fit into this category.  

So, I would say that the broad brush strokes against the evangelical church are unwarranted.  Likewise, though, painting all of EC with the critique against specific individuals is unwarranted.  I'm not sure EC is uniform enough for broad stroke criticisms of their theology.  From what I've seen in my research, read in their writings, and heard in podcasts and conferences, they are all over the map.  This being said, we ought to hold their feet to the fire, just as we would any brother or sister.

One of my primary questions at this point is, what do most ECs hold in common and how wide is the range of opinion within these commonalities?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;My only question is if the EC’s protest against traditional evangelicalism in this area is accurate&#8221;</p>
<p>It is accurate in some circles&#8211;maybe in the specific churches against which they are protesting.  There are evangelical churches that are so concerned about accurate content in theology that they neglect the downtrodden in their neighborhood or who fail to speak up for justice, preferring rather to complain to one another about how terrible things are.  On the other hand, most evangelical churches do  not fit into this category.  </p>
<p>So, I would say that the broad brush strokes against the evangelical church are unwarranted.  Likewise, though, painting all of EC with the critique against specific individuals is unwarranted.  I&#8217;m not sure EC is uniform enough for broad stroke criticisms of their theology.  From what I&#8217;ve seen in my research, read in their writings, and heard in podcasts and conferences, they are all over the map.  This being said, we ought to hold their feet to the fire, just as we would any brother or sister.</p>
<p>One of my primary questions at this point is, what do most ECs hold in common and how wide is the range of opinion within these commonalities?</p>
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		<title>By: Darius</title>
		<link>http://zealfortruth.org/2007/10/emerging-impulses-kingdom-focus/#comment-2103</link>
		<author>Darius</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Oct 2007 15:10:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://zealfortruth.org/2007/10/emerging-impulses-kingdom-focus/#comment-2103</guid>
					<description>What he's doing is being a heretic, but that long ago became painfully obvious.  He has no understanding of the most basic of Christianity, and to tie it back to this article's topic, he has rejected truth for the sake of "doing truth."  How can one "do truth" if one completely ignores what truth is???</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What he&#8217;s doing is being a heretic, but that long ago became painfully obvious.  He has no understanding of the most basic of Christianity, and to tie it back to this article&#8217;s topic, he has rejected truth for the sake of &#8220;doing truth.&#8221;  How can one &#8220;do truth&#8221; if one completely ignores what truth is???</p>
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		<title>By: Darius</title>
		<link>http://zealfortruth.org/2007/10/emerging-impulses-kingdom-focus/#comment-2104</link>
		<author>Darius</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Oct 2007 15:17:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://zealfortruth.org/2007/10/emerging-impulses-kingdom-focus/#comment-2104</guid>
					<description>Good points, Laura, and I agree totally.  The EC paints with a broad stroke, but hates it when they are painted with one as well.  That is probably what they have most in common. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good points, Laura, and I agree totally.  The EC paints with a broad stroke, but hates it when they are painted with one as well.  That is probably what they have most in common. <img src='http://zealfortruth.org/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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