As an elementary school teacher in the public education system, I am required to join the local (OEA) and national (NEA) teacher unions. Recently, the NEA celibrated “150 years in education,” and all of their “accomplishments” as a union and how far the United States has come in the past century in terms of educating children. Quite frankly, I was dumbfounded. Recent history alone has shown that Americans are increasingly appalled at the state of education in our country. So much so, that President George Bush ran on an education platform in the 2000 election and won the presidency promising to enact the “No Child Left Behind” legislation.
Since that legislation, debate has raged in favor of improving public education through federal law or de-federalizing education to a certain extent through the use of vouchers and other school choice options. It is fair to say that parents are often unhappy with the level of education their children are recieving in the public education system.
Recently a trial voucher program was piloted in the District of Columbia in Washington D.C. The Washington Post reports that this voucher program provides $ 7,500 vouchers (about half the average public expediture per student in the D.C. area) to 1,800 K-12 students who live in the D.C. area and come from low income families to transfer to private schools and escape the troubled D.C. public schools. A study conducted by the U.S. Department of Education’s Institute of Educational Sciences was released recently. The report studied five key outcomes of the D.C. Opportunity Scholarship Program: school differences; academic achievement; parental perceptions of school satisfaction and safety; student reports of school satisfaction and safety; and the impact of using a scholarship.
Key findings of the report include:
- After one year, there was no clear evidence of a statistically significant difference in test scores between students who were offered a scholarship and students who were not offered a scholarship, over the seven month school year.
- Overall, students who were offered the scholarship were performing in math and reading at levels comparable to students not offered a scholarship;
- The study’s results showed a positive impact on math achievement for two subgroups of students: students who had not previously attended a D.C. public school classified as in need of improvement and students with relatively higher baseline test scores.
- The Program had a substantial and consistently positive impact on parental satisfaction and their perceptions of school safety.
- Of the parents whose child received a scholarship, 74% gave their child’s school a grade of “A” or “B” compared to 55% of parents whose children did not receive scholarships.
It would seem then, looking at these facts, that the voucher program was sucessful in its first year because students maintained reading scores, gained in math scores, met parental expectations, and managed to do this in a period of seven months. Remember, this was done with approximately half the funds that would have been spent of these students in the same year in public schools.
Others, such as Washington Post reporters Amit R. Paley and Theola Lab disagree, their article cites voucher programs as being irrelevant and goes so far as to suggest that vouchers programs have recieved a failing grade.
I find this an interesting topic, in spite of the fact that my kids are all grown and I have no grandkids on the horizon. I confess to not knowing a lot about the private vs. public school debate, so at the risk of showing my ignorance, let me ask a couple questions:
1. Do kids from both public and private schools (or even homeschooled kids, for that matter) have to pass the same standardized tests in order to graduate? If so, then it seems like the point would be to educate all children to the same demonstrable level, and it truly doesn’t matter how they got there.
2. From what I know, teachers in private schools get paid a lot less than teachers at public schools. Is that true as far as you know? Is that why many teachers are against any legislation that would threaten the way they make a living?
3. Where does the money come from for these vouchers?
The people who call the voucher programs a failure are using different benchmarks to pass judgement. They want to see a marked improvement in test scores. Well, that’s not going to happen in one year. What we see is no statistical difference. How these people interpreted “no difference” to mean “failing grade” is explained only by the understanding that they oppose vouchers as a matter of principle. They’re looking for any excuse to kill the program.
I can’t understand the vehemence with which some people oppose school vouchers. Do they hate choice? It isn’t like we’re taking kids out of school altogether. It doesn’t cost anything–that money goes to education either way. We’re just giving parents a choice of how to spend that money. Since when is choice evil?
Jew– what you say is true. Teacher unions are especially anti-choice because it would mean competition and they would eventually lose their powerhold on legislation and politics.
Thainamu, here are the best answers to the questions you posed.
1. Do kids from both public and private schools (or even homeschooled kids, for that matter) have to pass the same standardized tests in order to graduate?
Different states have different standardized tests that they created according to NCLB. These tests evaluate the school based on student results. Many private school are not accredited because they choose to hire teachers who do not have current state lisences or because their children do not take the state assessments, but are assessed in other ways.
2. From what I know, teachers in private schools get paid a lot less than teachers at public schools. Is that true as far as you know? Is that why many teachers are against any legislation that would threaten the way they make a living?
Teachers at SOME private schools are paid less, although many private schools offer better benefits to recruit better teachers. If a system of choice were allowed to develop you would see better teachers at better schools recieve the best pay, just as in any other market. The only teachers who would be marginalized are the teachers who should not be teaching because they are not competent.
3. The vouchers come from private organizations and sometimes they are federal vouchers. This trial voucher program was from the Department of Ed. and federal funds.
Jew, no, they don’t hate “choice” per se, since many of the people who are so vehemently against school vouchers are quite “pro-choice” when it comes to abortion. In other words, people should have a choice when it comes to killing their baby, but not about educating it if it’s allowed to live.
To allow parents to make the choice of where and how their child gets educated is to remove that power from the government and place it back in the hands of the individual, which unions and lefties are completely against and is contrary to their worldview that the government must always make the decision for the people (except in a few cases when it fits the other liberal agenda of killing off humanity for the betterment of nature) since government knows best.
I haven’t seen any statistics that equate pro-choice with being against school vouchers. I wouldn’t lump them together. I don’t subscribe to the concept of a liberal agenda, either. It’s just millions of people and their various special interest groups, not any sort of coordinated conspiracy.
I would hazard a guess that probably 70 to 80% of those who are against school vouchers are also against banning abortion. It’s even higher among the politicians and leaders.
And I will hazard a guess that you have nothing but your gut feeling to back up those numbers.
Darius,
I would hazard a guess that probably 70 to 80% of those who are against immigration are also KKK sympathizers. It’s even higher among the politicians and leaders of Southern heritage.
Your pigeon-holing and blinders-wearing view of politics is quite laughable. Do you have neat little boxes that you shove everyone inside? I’m curious, because I want to know what link you draw between school vouchers and abortion that extends beyond your pure imagination.
Everyone??? How is 70-80% everyone? Weak math. Prior to detailing how my gut feeling on the matter goes, I will say that Jew is correct, many normal Americans on the street can’t be pigeon-holed into either the conservative or, especially, the liberal camp… anyway, onto my gut feeling. About half (50% for those who don’t know what “half” means) of Americans are against school vouchers, depending on which poll you read. About 45%-55% of Americans are pro-abortion, depending on the question and how it’s phrased. So, how many of the anti-school choice crowd are the same as the pro-abortion crowd? 0% (in other words, the half that are against vouchers are all pro-life)? 25%? 50%? 75%? 100%? Since almost all conservatives I know personally and nearly all conservative leaders in this country are in favor of school choice in some form or another, that likely eliminates 0% and 25%, since that would mean that a majority of “conservatives” are anti-school choice, which is baloney to anyone who doesn’t have his “blinders” on. So, the options left are 50, 75, and 100%. I am sure 100% is not the case, so we’ll eliminate that. Now, does anyone seriously believe that half of those against school vouchers are conservatives and half are liberals? It goes completely against their opposing worldviews. The liberal worldview calls for more involvement by government while the conservative worldview calls for smaller government. School vouchers obviously land in the latter.
Now, perhaps someone would like to debate this gut feeling of mine and the reasons I have set forth, or perhaps someone will just say they find me laughable and ignore the discussion. Either way, it’s fine by me.
seriously, this “GoogleBot” thing is starting to get on my nerves.
Darius, I understand what you’re saying. Opposing school vouchers strikes me as a liberal position, so it might naturally correlate with other liberal ideas such as being pro-choice. But I’m not willing to make any assumptions. If someone does a survey and finds a real correlation, that’s another story.
I’m going to have to mostly agree with GoogleBot on this one. It’s well accepted that Democrats are largely pro-choice on abortion and against school vouchers. It’s true there’s different special interest in the Democratic Party, but if they didn’t agree some on other issues as well they wouldn’t be in the same party.
It’s also well accepted that the majority of Republicans are pro-life to some extent and supportive of school vouchers.
Polls I could find online so that 65% of Democrats oppose school vouchers and 62% of Republicans support them (although this poll is several years old). 69% of Democrats consider themselves pro-choice on abortion and 62% of Republicans consider themselves pro-life.
So in absence of evidence to the contrary, it’s very reasonable to think that the majority of people opposed to school vouchers are pro-choice on abortion. This is something where the incidental evidence supports GoogleBot’s claim and it seems like the burden is on the other side to produce evidence showing it’s not true.
ok, on my home comp I am signed in as Darius, instead of GoogleBot. Not sure why, but it is. As for the school vouchers vs. abortion correlation, I was just making that comment in passing as it relates to “choice.” Thought that it would be somewhat self-evident, thus I originally didn’t offer up any reasoning behind it. Thank you Jasen for the additional statistical data to further expound upon my “gut feeling.”
Congratulations on providing statistical data to link your “gut feeling”. Now back to my original point: Beyond your imagination, what is the link? You seem to loosely join school “choice” with abortion “choice” based on the word “choice”. Do you really imply the logic that a choice for abortion is similar in thought process to the choice for school vouchers? I’d dare-say they are an “apples to coconuts” argument.(Just so you know, I’m fine with school vouchers in theory, and I’m against abortion, though I think it’s a states issue) Right now, I could take just about any statistic and show a link based on any assumption, and it won’t prove a thing. Not even a point. The only correlation implied is that both issues “tend” to be a Democratic platform basis. Beyond that, I fail to see how they are linked in any manner. The word “choice” is platform-defined, not universally defined, which is why your conclusion of them being linked (beyond general party principles) on a thought-process level is in fact, quite simplistic and laughable.
I never said they were linked (still unclear as to where you learned your amazing reading comprehension skills). I merely made the observation, in response to Jew’s wonderment over their apparent hatred of “choice,” that it was IRONIC that those who favor “choice” on abortion do not grant that same freedom to people when it comes to education. Not a link, mind you, but rather an observation of hypocrisy. I would not say that the two are necessarily related, just that they are two positions that are generally more likely to be held by the political left in this country. I continue to be amazed how much of a discussion has come out of my apparently not-so-obvious “guess” that the two were linked in terms of support. Both fit the liberal ideals that government knows best and that sex must be bereft of responsibility (in other words, pleasurable hedonism is the ultimate goal in life).
How can it be an “observation of hypocrisy” without a link? If there is no link (as I’m implying via the word “choice”), then there is no hypocrisy. Again, they are not being hypocritical because they allow “choice” of abortion but not “choice” of school, since the definitions of choice in both instances is different, and come from a different frame of mind. Therefore, they are NOT linked, so there is NO hypocrisy. My entire POINT was that there is no link between the “choice” of school and the “choice” of abortion, so therefore, NO hypocrisy. My reading comprehension is quite good, and you still haven’t answered my question. If there is no link, just an empty observation, then you had no point to begin with. THIS is why so much of the discussion has stemmed from your comment…it made absolutely no sense beyond your imagination. Yes, a majority of democrats agree with legalizing abortion and are against school vouchers. My point is…so what? Beyond the fact they are both considered Democratic platforms, what is your point?
“Both fit the liberal ideals that government knows best and that sex must be bereft of responsibility (in other words, pleasurable hedonism is the ultimate goal in life).”
LOL.
Glad to know that you have not only implied the claim of an overreaching liberal agenda of common thought, but have also claimed that this is their overreaching “ideals”. As if these ideals are a product of one camp of a bipolar political system. You really are simplistic. This is only true if you an honestly prove that these ideals don’t exist in “conservatives” will I listen to your babble. “Pleasurable hedonism is the ultimate goal in life” is only true of those that don’t know Christ, by crude definition. This should be regardless of political thought and affiliation, unless you wish to suggest otherwise.
Do all Christians live by Christianity’s tenets and rules? Obviously, the answer is no. So likewise, some “lefties” or “liberals” do not believe in or follow some portions of the “liberal” worldview. One must differentiate between beliefs/worldviews/movements and their adherents. So why would you simplistically assume that I mean to say that all conservatives believe pleasure and hedonism to be wrong (though most do) or that I believe that all liberals live selfish, pleasure-first lives (or at least allow that mentality to define their political beliefs)? It would seem that you are the one who is most willing to exaggerate and pigeon-hole people and their statements into neat little boxes.
The “conservative” worldview is a rather large tent, as recent events in this country have shown. There are the primarily fiscal conservatives (somewhat close to libertarians) like George Will and much of the Wall Street Journal staff who tend to care more about economic than social issues, and conversely, there are the social conservatives who have the opposite priorities. Then there are those who believe that economic and social conservative are closely tied and cannot be uncoupled from each other.
Likewise, the “liberal” (or progressive now that liberal has too many negative connotations) worldview’s variations are probably equally as numerous as the conservative “Weltanschauung.” While I may fit 97% into the “conservative” model, I have many friends who could be classified as practically 50/50.
LOL
Seriously Darius, I wonder a bit about you. I was actually exaggerating to show the ridiculousness of many of your statements. I don’t pigeon-hole (well, much. We all do to some extent.), nor was I assuming. I was exaggerating YOUR claims. Remember, this is what you said:
“Both fit the liberal ideals that government knows best and that sex must be bereft of responsibility (in other words, pleasurable hedonism is the ultimate goal in life).”
From that statement, one can ONLY assume that you claim that:
A) Liberals have ideals that the government knows best and
B) that sex MUST be bereft of responsibility (implying desire for hedonism as the means)
Since you didn’t mention conservatives/moderates/republicans/anyone else, what else can I think? Knowing you are a fellow Christian, and knowing that the opposite of following Christ is the follow the world, chasing after pleasures, it seems to me you were lumping the two. While I see from your second comment above that it is indeed NOT the case, I apologize for assuming. BUT, let us be honest here, you led me there. With statements like above, it is indeed YOU who were pigeon-holing. My exaggerated responses were meant to be sarcastic to show you just how ridiculous it is.
it’s all good. I wouldn’t say that all non-Christians are by definition hedonistic (someone like Theodore Dalrymple completely breaks that mold), but for the most part, they are. After all, if not Christ, what else is there but to eat, drink, and be merry? On the other hand, some Christians appear very hedonistic in their own lives.
Was that trial voucher program limited to private schools vs public schools? I was homeschooled & vouchers would have greatly eased the financial burden on my parents. My understanding was always that we pay the same taxes that contribute to education as everyone else so if my parents chose to homeschool they shouldn’t have had to pay twice for the same education. Even when it came to dual-enrollment at the local college there was a double standard between public schooling & homeschooling. The state paid the tuition for both types of students but also paid for the books of public school students whereas we had to buy our own.
Of course, homeschooling was important enough to our family that we bit the bullet & paid for it - it all comes down to what matters most to a family.
And regarding Thainamu’s questions, in Florida we took standardized tests annually to prove to the state we were at least on par with our public school counterparts. Once we turned 16, though, the state didn’t care anymore. So then we would have a licensed teacher come to our home for the last few years of school, review our course of study & she’s send a certified letter to the state. Once we got dual-enrolled at the community college we discontinued that as we figured, no one’s going to doubt high-school level education once you’ve got college under your belt. To become dual-enrolled at the college we were required to pass certain tests to assure them of our high-school levels. When it came time to officially graduate from high-school so I could also get my A.A., we simply had to have a letter from my parents notarized stating that I was done with high school - I think this was a rule specific to my community college, though, & other schools probably have different ways of handling it.
I took the SATs when I decided to transfer to a 4-year college & got my GED just in case there were ever any questions. It’s been a few years though so homeschooling requirements may have changed - the rules vary from state to state & also from college to college.